anyone have any advice about patents

[Jroettger]

I have an idea for an invention I believe there is a demand for. After viewing and observing existing patents I realize professional help would be required just to draw and explain it. I can't believe how complicated all the jargon is that goes into writing one. Anyway, how much should one expect to pay for professional help to have a fairly simple device with about 5 parts writen up? In the early 1980's I looked into patents and at that point in time one could simply send in a prototype of the invention and it seemed even write your own description. Now it appears they don't want a proto type.

[Ray Cover]

I am going through this right now for a push graver handle I invented.

You can expect it to cost you about $5,000 for the pattent attourney. If you can't do your own cad drawings you may also have to pay someone to do those for you.

Then there is a $500 application fee when the app is sent in. There is also a fee at the end that is in the $1,200 range.

Taint cheap. Make sure you can sell the hell out of them to make it worth your while.

Ray

[Jroettger]

Thanks For the advice Ray. And I must say I think that Mermaid knive is an incredible piece. Great job!

[michael_e]

There are a lot of neat resources on-line now. You can even do patent searches via the USPTO website here: http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html

Check out Steve's evolution of patents on his Airgraver. Neat drawings!

[Danny C]

Hi James, if you'd like me to draw up your idea, I offer my services. I can work from the real thing or a sketch. If you have WORD on your computer we can transfer info.

Danny Comsa
dancom@pacbel.net

[Jroettger]

One thing I have noticed about patent searches is that all the similar inventions aready patented show all the related patents and the efforts of their inventors' searches saving one a bunch of time. I have visited the paper/book patent office here in minneapolis and it was fun to pick up the large volumes and turn through the pages filled with funky inventions that went nowhere. All the hand draw pictures, cool stuff. shoes with dog poop removing scapers!

[Jroettger]

Well I finished my prototype jewelry finding and it is by far the best in a wanting area of findings. Now what to do? Should I try to market it without the patent or not? I have heard you can sell something without a patent using a joint confidentiality agreement. I believe this to be a good invention and maybe worth some money. Is the patent the best way to go for a good bet? Any input would be appreciated by this life long wanna be inventor.

[Jroettger]

Well I went to the lawyer and put down the $800 for the patent search, just the first step in a $4000 to $5000 trail. When I got done with the prototype I felt like a genius. Now I feel like a silly gambler in Vegas. I realize even if the thing proves to be the best, knocking away the comptetion and bringing the thing to a national market is a daunting task. I'll reveal the details as soon as the patent is applied for. I still believe it's the best and am sure I would live to regret not pursuing it. Though now I realize big time I may yet live to regret trying this risk as well.

[KurtB]

I really wish you the best of luck. I've come up with a few things in the past, and thought about a patent, but I've always been put off by the cost and complexity, and never went forward.

I have a good buddy who happens to be a patent attorney. What a fascinating subject. His #1 advice, repeated over and over: "The LANGUAGE is everything. A well written patent will be almost impossible to bypass. One written haphazardly is a waste of money, and is relatively simple to get by." So put some effort into the language/description. That might be one area where it would be worth a few hours ao a patent attorney (or agent)'s time.

The drawback to a poorly-written patent is the fact that it is instantly public, along with detailed descriptions and drawings. If the language doesn't protect you, all of a sudden you have just announced to your competition "Here's what I got! Ain't it great?" and the language allows him to get around it.

Again, good luck with it and keep us informed.

[Jroettger]

Thanks Kurt,
From viewing other patents I figured it was all over my head and so I
am totally going to have it professionally done.
I found an older attorney who came with a good reference. Funny thing is he doesn't have a computer in his office! Maybe he keeps it hid. At least the item I invented is in response to the mediocre products currently on the market that I hope to enter. Identifying a real need and going up against a line up of lousy products is an inviting situation. I read in the business section of the paper that taking on a market filled with poor products is a good strategy versus trying to do something super risky like trying to make a better air graver than Steve's.
That would be risky. At least there is a real need for an improved product with the item I am making. This is the kind of product where just mentioning what it is could reveal too much as most people aready agree with me that there needs to be a better one.

[michael_e]

Originally Posted by Jroettger

Well I finished my prototype jewelry finding and it is by far the best in a wanting area of findings. Now what to do? Should I try to market it without the patent or not? I have heard you can sell something without a patent using a joint confidentiality agreement. I believe this to be a good invention and maybe worth some money. Is the patent the best way to go for a good bet? Any input would be appreciated by this life long wanna be inventor.

A jewelry finding ? Hmmm, I think that this may be an easy guess since there's one obvious area that could really use a good innovation and offer protection in terms of a patent, (wouldn't have anything to do with ring sizing would it ?). You need to realize that the key to using a patent is in your will and ability to protect it. In something like this I would think that a patent would be essential to either build a business around it or, more probably, to sell it to a larger company. The reason that I would suggest selling it, or at least offering some sort of exclusive distributorship to someone like Stuller or Rio, is that they can afford the time and expense of doing the marketing. If you think the cost of a patent is high, then you'd probably be overwhelmed by the costs of marketing a good innovation, rapidly enough to keep the copycats at bay. Things like Steve's graver are fairly easy to protect, since he can see what everyone else in the market is doing through his contacts, scuttlebutt and cruising the 'net once in a while. Something like a jewelry innovation would have a much broader market and be much harder to protect. I sure hope that it works for you, it's always neat to see new things that work well !

[Jroettger]

Micheal, thanks for the reply. A new brother in law of mine has been a professional inventor his whole career for the medical industry. In that field people and investors are always waiting for the next new idea. He has sold items with just a joint confidentiality agreement. However he also just informed me that one of his ideas that he disclosed in 1999 is now being put through the patent process by someone he revealed it to with a joint confidentiality agreement! He said he'll wait till it's making money then go in and sue the guy. His opinion is that patents are too hard to protect to bother with.
In the case of the item I want to market virtually all the similar products on the market to date have been solely patented, manufactured and promoted by the inventors. The jewelry field is not one where people like Stuller are waiting around for the next inovation to buy, develope and market. It seems more likely I'll have to bring it to market which won't be easy, even for a great idea.